These are probably the most controversial verses in the Bible. There are basically 3 views as to how we relate to these verses. 1.) The Armenian view which says these verses refer to saved Christians and what it describes is a loss of salvation. (I do not ascribe to this view.

2.) The view held by "old-school" calvinists (like A.W. Pink for example) is that these verses describe someone on the "threshold" of salvation only, that the blessings described in verses 4 and 5 are the highest spiritual blessings a person can enjoy while being yet unsaved. The apostasy here described therefore happens before a person actually gets saved, but has been enlightened to the truth. I admit I lean toward this view as it seems to match up nicely with the "stony soil" of Matt. 13 and also with Galatians, where Paul seems to express a doubt that his readers were even saved (4:20). However I am not completely convinced.

3.)the "standing versus fellowship" view. Proponents of this say that they do indeed refer to saved persons but that the apostasy involved does not affect their justification only their fellowship with God. (Gracethrufaith.com). My problem with this view is that they are forced by these verses to say that a Christian in this condition can never be restored to fellowship with God, which I view as extremely unlikely.

I am very interested in everyone's take on all this, not in order to start a needless argument, but because I am trying to come to a conclusion on this, and one of you may be able to bring an insight or point out something I am unable to see at this time!

Grace and Peace, Jim

Excellent topic Brother Jim. I will weigh in after a few of the members have posted.

Thank you Brother David! I did forget one thing though. I forgot to post the verses I was referring too!
To hopefullt make things a little easier for everyone on this thread, here are the verses from the KJV:

Heb 6:1 Therefore leaving the principles of the doctrine of Christ, let us go on unto perfection; not laying again the foundation of repentance from dead works, and of faith toward God,

Heb 6:2 Of the doctrine of baptisms, and of laying on of hands, and of resurrection of the dead, and of eternal judgment.

Heb 6:3 And this will we do, if God permit.

Heb 6:4 For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost,

Heb 6:5 And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come,

Heb 6:6 If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame.

Ok well I couldn't resist, so I will just say this for now. Let's look at Hebrews 6:4-6, "...it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, if they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance..." (Hebrews 6:4-6). These words "fall away" match the parable where our LORD warned that some would "for a while believe, and in time of temptation fall away" (Luke 8:13).

Now, pay attention, all of these passages, and others like them, have vexed many a Bible teacher who SOUGHT to harmonize these CONDITIONAL statements with the UNCONDITIONAL security taught by the Apostle Paul. However, THE SOLUTION is NOT to try to harmonize God's PROPHETIC program with His MYSTERY program, but to recognize the Dispensational distinctions and then view these verses in their proper Dispensational perspective.

Security for Kingdom Saints works differently than it does for members of the Body of Christ. Today, during this Dispensation of the Mystery, believers in Christ are members of His Body, and "He cannot deny Himself." Today the LORD abides faithful to US. BUT, the responsibility for abiding faithful in the KINGDOM Program lay squarely on the believer.

I see what you're saying Brother David, but Hebrews was written after the dispensation of grace started. So the question is, how do they apply today?

This is where it gets a little confusing for me. Even though Hebrews was written at a time well into the dispensation of grace, the "fundamentals" listed in verses 1 and 2 seem to reflect Christianity as it was BEFORE the revelation of the mystery. You referred to the security of kingdom believers...could it be that they were eternally secure all along, but that this truth wasnt revealed until it was revealed to Paul?

What makes you believe that the Epistle to the HEBREWS was written "at a time well into the Dispensation of Grace". Personally, I place it during the 18 months the Apostle Paul spent in Corinth.

Just for example, when Paul was at the Council meeting in Acts 15, the very subjects of Hebrews had been apparently bitterly discussed.