One of the great mysteries for those who study Bible prophecy is the timing of the wars mentioned in Psalm 83 and the war described in Ezekiel chapters 38 and 39. They are obviously different wars but which war occurs first and when? Are they pretribulational wars or tribulation wars? How can Israel be living in peace and security prior to the Ezekiel war as the prophecy clearly indicates? That is the ongoing debate.

I would like to see many of LLM's MEmbers participate here. Do your homework and post your conclusions.

OK this is my take on this. I do believe Psalm 83 is prophetic. I believe this will be the next event after the Rapture, probably very soon after it. I dont think it happens prior to the Rapture, because it would be a "sign" and the Apostle Paul would have told us to look for it in 1 Thessalonians. In the chaos following the Rapture, the nations referred to in Psalm 83 (Syria, Lebanon, Jordan) may form a loose alliance with the Palestinian refugees (the "tents of Edom" Psalm 83:6). An alternative is, it may not be those nations officially, but groups within them (Hamas, Hezbollah). America will not be a factor in this period, as the Rapture will cause her more than enough problems to force her to concentrate on "domestic issues". Right now America is on the verge of economic collapse, and if the Rapture happens soon, it will be the straw the breaks the camel's back. America and that part of the world economically tied to her will enter a depression that will make the 1930's look like a dress rehearsal. With America "out of the way", Israel's neighbors who hate her and have vowed to drive her into the sea ( Psalm 83:4) will seize the opportunity and attack her. God has made many promises to Israel that are yet to be fulfilled. In light of this, I believe God helps Israel to not only be victorious but decisively so. It may be as a consequence of this war that Damascus is completely destroyed, fulfilling Isaiah 17. Israel's borders will be expanded and her wealth increased. Antisemitism around the world may be increased during this time, causing many more jews to return to Israel. I believe the result of the Psalm 83 war will put Israel in the right conditions for the Ezekiel 38 war. For the Ezekiel war to take place, there are five prerequisites that Israel must be able to meet. As a result of the Psalm 83 war, Israel will be able to meet the following prophetic requirements:

1.The Jews will return from exile to the mountains of Israel (Ezekiel 38:8 & 12)
2.They will be living securely in Israel (Ezekiel 38:8 & 11)
3.They will have recovered from war (the Psalm 83 war) (Ezekiel 38:8)
4.The Jews and the land of Israel will have great wealth (Ezekiel 38:8 & 12-13)
5.The land east of the Dead Sea will be included in Israel's borders (Ezekiel 39:11-12)

Due to the nature of modern warface, neither the Psalm 83 nor the Ezekiel 38 war will take very long. The Psalm 83 war could be over and done with in less than a week. During this time and also during the Ezekiel 38 war, the man who will be the Antichrist will rise to power. It is in the aftermath of Ezekiel 38 that the First Seal is broken, and the Antichrist is revealed. He may even try to take credit for how the war is ended (its actually a major supernatural intervention by God) After the Ezekiel 38 war is over, the following will occur:

Dan 9:27 And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: ...

Grace and Peace!

Dear BRother Jim,

Great Response! However, I want you to go back over your findings with these few thoughts in mind:

Even if all the Jews in the world relocated back to Israel there are only about 15 million Jews in the entire world.

So my question is, how can a small nation like Israel occupy and hold such a large area? Today there are only six million Jews in Israel and there are over 300 million Arabs and their population will grow to 400 million in seven years. Israel cannot field a large army for a long period of time because there would be few adult citizens left to run internal affairs in Israel. Even the mighty U.S. and NATO would have to make a World War II type effort to occupy and hold such a huge area of the Middle East.

Think about it...

I haven't considered it from that angle.With the weapons Israel has access to (chemical, tactical nukes, that sort of thing) fielding a large army would not be necessary. Fear of the "Samson Option" is really the only thing that has kept these nations from invading her thus far, and you would think that even after the rapture they would still be too afraid to invade! But the Rapture will change things dramatically. Eyes will be blinded, hearts will be hardened, and what is now unthinkable may actually happen! It maybe that God causes a huge influx of people, jew or not, to go to Israel. God may also turn the hearts of many in the general area to Israel. the Egyptians, for example, are not listed as combatants in either war, neither is Iraq. Some within the Psalm 83 nations may side with Israel after its over(or at least agree to live in peace). Also, after the war its possible Israel makes a great discovery of oil! This would explain the nations of Ezekiel 38 looking to take a spoil, and also explain a possible vast influx of people moving to Israel (going where the opportunities are)! In the end, God will ensure Israel has the population i t needs.

Brother Jim, why does this conflict of Psalm 83 have to occur AFTER the Rapture? I understand what you say about the Apostle Paul would have told us to look for it, and while that is a good point, it may not apply.

The Apostle Paul in 2 Thessalonians was concerned that the Thessalonians were convinced by some forged letter alledgedly from Paul, that the Day of the LORD was at hand. So Paul's REAL letter to them was to re-iterate what he had told them before with regards to THAT. So what we can be SURE of is that the Body of Christ will be called home BEFORE the arrival of the REAL Antichrist. The Rapture marks and brings to a close the Dispensation of the Mystery.

NOW, with THAT said...lol...I think that it is likely that this Psalm 83 War could take place before the Rapture.

What say you?

Brother David, I suppose it could happen before the Rapture due to the fact that the info in Psalm 83 is not presented as a prophecy, but simply Asaph crying to the Lord and expressing his desires. There are still alot of folks who dont see this Psalm as prophetic for that reason. But to my mind this war and especially the peoples involved working together would require a catalyst, some major unifying event. Right now all these nations are suffering from internal strife. I know that the Holy Spirit is not the 'restrainer' of 2nd Thess. but I do believe the presence of the Body on the earth is holding alot of these events in check. It could happen before the Rapture, but considering the condition of t he middle east right now, it doesn't seem likely,

Brother Jim, your last post made me go, "hmmmm". Very interesting, because it would take some event to make those neighboring nations think they could win. And the Rapture sure would create a worldwide collapse and absolute confusion that perhaps these islamic nations would see as their opportunity to put an end to Israel.

Ok, so the Body of Christ is called home...chaos and utter confusion follow...the Psalm 83 confederacy is put into action, and Israel with nukes and neutron missles wins.

OK what happens now...?