Well, the Antichrist and his False Prophet will be coming on the scene, solving the world's problems and getting his empire together. (I like the Ottoman paradigm myself, but I'll leave this open to the possibility of the Western Europe view). World attention will be on them while russia secretly collaborates with Iran and others for the Ezekiel 38 Invasion. It could be only a matter of a couple of months between the two wars. By the time the Psalm 83 war is over, the world will be in such fear of a nuclear World War 3 that religions will unite (thats already starting) and nations will be racing to peace talks! It may be at this time the Antichrist takes out 3 world leaders in his bid to consolidate his power. He will already have the world media on his side due to his peace-making brilliance and propaganda, so he'll get away with this. The 3 leaders will be "demonized" by the world media. However this action may embolden Russia and Iran.

I know what you're thinking. IRAN?? Arent they the big "12'ers" that are expecting their Mahdi? Won't Antichrist appear to be their guy? If he's busy trying to make peace why would they go to war? Consider this: There was a time when a people were waiting for their messiah. When He showed up, they saw Him as a threat to their position and power. We all know what happened then! Human nature hasnt changed. When it turns out their "mahdi" isnt exactly what they hoped for, they'll turn on him faster than you can say "allah akbar"!

Grace and Peace

I need to put a big oops here! After re-reading the posts, I realized I hadn't backed very much up with Scripture! My post reads like a story. hmmm.....ok I'll try to do this like Jack Van Impe would, however my memory isnt so good so I'll have to "cheat" and use e-sword. Bear with me a moment...

OK, Rexella, in Daniel chapter 7 we have the AntiChrist described in his mortal stage. He has not yet been satanically possessed as that happens in the middle of the 7 year tribulation period when Satan is cast out of the Heavens and down to the earth - Revelation 12:9 -

By the way, the Antichrist will not be possessed by Satan himself, as many teach, instead he will be possessed by a different fallen angel that comes up out of the Abyss (the bottomless pit) - Revelation 17:8

In Daniel 7:8 and 20, we see the Antichrist rise up among 10 leaders (he is not one of the 10) and he subdues 3 of them. Interestlingly. there are only 3 nations that are included in the people groups described in Psalm 83:6-8: Syria, Lebanon, Jordan. It could be that 10 muslim rulers unite in somekind of confederacy (actually there already is a Meditteranean Union already...also another confederacy but I cannot remember what its called). The Antichrist comes seemingly out of nowhere - in Daniel 7:8 he is described as a 'little horn' suggesting that at this point he is a "nobody" - then the Psalm 83 war occurs and after Israel beats those 3 nations back, the Antichrist goes after and subdues the leaders of those 3 nations fulfilling Daniel 7:8! Israel may be led to believe by his actions against the 3 leaders that the Antichrist is their friend. This along with the physical results of the war will cause Israel to feel secure - Ezek. 38:11-At this point the Psalm 83 conflict is over and the Antichrist has risen to power and has the beginnings of his empire. The current internal strife by many countries in the middle east may very well be a prelude to the rise of the ten kings of Daniel 7.

So until later...go serve your king!
(wait a minute...that's not Van Impe's signoff... that's Todd Friel's! oops!)

Grace and Peace

Ok you two, as Paul Harvey says where's "the rest of the story"? lol I think the way things are heating up as of this week, evil towards Israel, and Obama with his finger up in the 2012 winds(and nose lol) that it could go either way pre or post Rapture. When filled with such hate and an everlasting hatred inspired by Satan reason goes out the door! Hate blinds and this collaspe of the Middle East has embolden Israel's enemies (Muslim Brotherhood etc.). Then add the world at large blames Israel for everything so they see a never so great an opportunity to strike. Whether we're here or in the air the world is teetering on the brink so we don't really have to be gone to plummet it. They way the weather is behaving we could see something like the long overdue Washington State 9 earth quake they are predicting or any of many catostophic events take place. God's ways are not our ways and He definately has a plan and His timing is perfect. I personally woud rather be gone than suffer any of it, but pray I have courage to endure it if still here. I do believe we are anticipating Ps83 and it's part of the birth pains as they get stronger and stronger. I had to be induced with my second child and I picture that as Ezekiel 38 &39. You can't even catch your breath before another pain starts and you think you will sufficate and die. Your brain is weilding wildly and you're trying to call for help to save you, but you can't breathe to talk. Sounds like Israel when they call for their Messiah to save them! Unless God intervenes because the timing is not right these people are going to try to wipe Israel out now. Maybe some of the Muslims questioning their beliefs are part of the body waiting to be entered in before the call to come up! We can pray it's so.

OK let me get you guys thinking on some stuff...many Bible prophecy teachers say that the war of Ezekiel is pretribulation or the war starts the tribulation period. That may be true but to me these teachers never offer a satisfactory explanation of how Israel could be living in peace and security as required in Ezekiel's prophecy under the present world realities. They often talk about a false peace but does anyone really believe that there can be any peace and security in Israel as describe in Ezekiel while the enemies of Israel are still armed to the teeth with 40,000 rockets? And what about Israel's walls? So how do we get there from here, if prophecy is going to be fulfilled in our generation? Realistically, Israel's enemies are not going to suddenly disarm themselves so Israel can live in peace and security. It will be done by war.

Then Other Bible prophecy teachers say the peace is brokered by the Antichrist at the start of the first 3 1/2 years of a seven year tribulation period and then at the mid tribulation point Gog comes down against Israel. However, the picture painted in Ezekiel 38 is that this is more a LONG TERM peace when all of Israel is at rest and not just a forced peace of a couple of years. Besides, if the Ezekiel war starts at the beginning of the last 3 1/2 years when the "Day of the Lord" begins, it opens another can of worms. You have to actually do prophetic gymnastics to explain how the other prophecies in those same chapters of Ezekiel are literally fulfilled during the next holocaust.

For example, how can Israel be searching for bodies and be burning weapons of war for seven years when they have been overrun by the forces of the Antichrist? The obedient of Israel at this time fled to the mountain of Jordan and are being supernaturally protected. They are not burning weapons of war in Israel. Some of the explanations I have heard how this can take place are simply not logical.

Ok, discuss...lol

Consider this, When Israel wins the Psalm 83 War HOW will they occupy the territory of a Greater Israel. The difficulties of a much greater Israel before the return of the LORD are obvious. Even if all the Jews in the world relocated back to Israel there are only about 15 million Jews in the entire world. How can a small nation like Israel occupy and HOLD such a large area?

The only way I can envision Israel occupying all that newly aquired land would be if God caused ALOT of people to move to there, jew or not. Maybe they do so ostensibly to have a better life or something. Unless I am missing something (which is very possible) both wars would have to occur in the interval between the Rapture and Daniel's 70th week. Or maybe Psalm 83 happens prior to the Rapture.

Brother David, you touched on something in Lion Shout that has always bothered me. Satan is aware of the prophecies of the End Times, and also of all the "prophetic schemes" we come up with to understand these prophecies and how they may play out. Satan in the OT was trying to make the prophecies of the coming messiah fail, so its logical to assume he wants to make end time prophecies fail as well, hoping to avoid his doom by doing so. So why all the NWO machinations, alien abductions, etc. ? All he has to do is destroy Israel as a nation! No Israel, no Daniel 9:27, no rebuilt temple, no jewish remnant hiding out in the wilderness, etc. A couple of well placed ICBM's would do the job (probably only one of the big ones). And that brings up another question! Why allow the UN to acknowledge the state of Israel in 1948 in the first place!!! And as far as born again Christians are concerned, I've always heard Satan knows exactly who is saved and who isnt. It should be a simple matter of rounding us up and getting rid of us. I dont get it! I know God is really in control and is protecting us and Israel, but surely Satan is aware of this and adjust his plans accordingly. It just seems these end time chronologies the prophecy experts come up with are too simple...too cut and dried. I apologize if I'm rambling. I just finished watching that video 'EndGame' and trying to make all this fit into a logical pattern is giving me a headache. It would appear from the NWO theories that Satan is trying to unite humanity when it would be alot simpler and easier to start WW3 before the Rapture happens.
Thanks to that video I'm probably going to have nightmares about FEMA camps and eugenics experiments now! Sheesh! How does Alex Jones get a decent nights sleep!

Grace and Peace

Pastor David I was constructing a reply and then it said I needed to log in. I was logged in! So I did again and the post was gone. Is there some place I could've retrieved it, like a draft? I'm too tired to type and reconstruct it all. :(

What about the radiation after the burden of Damascus and destroying the neighborhood around Israel if they used nucleur weapons! Who would want to get near, not until safe. Is Ps83 answered by Is17. God delivering on his prayer! If Israel took out her neighbors maybe there wouldn't be 300 million Arabs left so not a problem occupying esp. if economies collasped and migration to Israel. Is17:13-14 (the nations fleeing far off, chased like chaff on the mts before the wind and Damascus he is not) This would give ample time for a lust and revenge to be conspired and a coalition to be formed. Israel would not have neighbors anymore, but the other enemies lusting for this new found wealth in oil and natural gas etc. would be conspiring to get their hands on it, they would be in desperate need if economy collasped world wide! Maybe first make nice and when ready attack to take it. They all think Israel belongs to them(well ? China maybe just the spoil) Preparing the way for antiChrist in the making and Armageddon. A temp. peace & unwalled for a time. I also think it could be before the Rapture. We are on a world brink of collaspe just a Quake like a 9 in Wash. St. predicted as inevitable and long overdue or any number of things like the world economies collasping could cause world confusion it doesn't take the Rapture. Maybe after Ps83/Is17 and throw in another disaster many would be open to hearing the Gospel and Muslim's questioning their faith may receive Christ and enter the body also and then the fullness and we're gone. Just a brief summary of what I was replying.